Labelling of Fish - shared, unpartitioned single container on a recreational vessel
OK, here's my web form enquiry to the Department of Fisheries:
In regards to the minister's recent ratification of changes to fishing legislation - specifically bagging, limits and and labelling:
If two or more anglers, on a boat, are sharing a common retained catch storage device (Esky/Kill Tank), are there any circumstances where, in observance of the new legislation, the fish need to be separately labelled if they are not separately bagged within that common storage device?
Where one angler has caught his/her bag/species/category limit?
Where more than one angler has caught his/her bag/species/category limit?
Where all anglers have caught their bag/species/category limit?
Any other circumstances?
Assume please that for the purpose of reply, that it a day trip without extension or overnight stay.
Given that labelling IS necessary, then that would mean the skipper is deemed to be in possession of the unlabelled, singularly contained (and not bagged) overall catch.Therefore, given at least one limit caught - any above that would be a breach?
The response should be interesting!
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Colin Hay
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This a pretty serious issue
You could be quite unaware that you could be liable.
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Dreamweaver
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Yup #1
That's why I'm seeking clarification.
Colin Molloy
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mako magic
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yeah agree no1@2, will be
yeah agree no1@2, will be interesting to see the outcome for sure, could be either way but seems like its never been an issue when ever we have been checked at the ramp before, but with the new regs it may well get changed
Dreamweaver
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Complex
That part of the leislation is not very clearly worded - but then again, is there a section that is! Will be very interesting if an FO decided to apply 'the understanding' of the legislation.
Colin Molloy
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Dreamweaver
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Just because
Just because they aren't yet enforcing any possible label requirements (if they DO exist in the situations I cited) doesn't mean they aren't there. Justing trying to make sure.
Colin Molloy
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Blackbetty-50
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Fishing Rules
How long before we have to provide what colour underwear and what toilet paper each person on board have a preference for. If there are 1,2 or 3 people on a boat out for a days fishing and their catch is within the days bag limit for the amount of fish on board and whether all the fish are in one common storage,this should not make any difference. No one is breaking the rules. Are these rules to protect the fish stocks or just put there to take the pleasure out of a nice day on the water. MOST of the new rules that we have read about, and may be implemented are practical, but this is a little over the top. Maybe next year we can only take brown bread with no butter for our lunch and have your names clearly marked so the fisheries officer knows who was a good boy and ate all of his lunch.
"Taking things tooo far"
mako magic
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well i suppose its per
well i suppose its per person, and if one person caught 4 dhuies onboard a boat with 2 people and the other person didnt get any, its still 2 peoples catch but by 1 person, so imo its a catch 22, maybe its a way to stop the stuff i just mentioned or to try and stop it
Dreamweaver
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Agreed B50
I'm with you all the way B50.
To be honest, I'm having difficulty seeing the rational on this part of the legislation (and some other parts). We really need a 'layman's' explanation. It's ok to say ignorance (total lack of knopwledge OR misunderstanding) is no excuse - but for me, the best outcome is universal awareness/knowledge and practice - so the KISS principal but be helpful. At the end of the day, it's got to work.
Why not do it at the boat level, rather than individual fishos - after all, even if you do have to label your catch (under circumstances I sited), it's so easy for people to get around that by applying the appropriate 'stickers/tags/labels' on the overall catch.
Hopefully, the response from DoF will provide clarity - I live in hope! LOL
Colin Molloy
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Andy Mac
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Rule
Its there to stop guys going out with a boat full of people who aren't interested in fishing and then killing the pig between a couple of blokes taking everyones bag limit.
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Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
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Dreamweaver
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Point taken Andy
Yeah, point taken Andy, but, as you say, can't seeing that happen too often.
Colin Molloy
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Dreamweaver
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Oh and...
The catch rule per angler can still be easily overcome. Those that want to 'kill the pig' can still easily just put the names of non anglers on the catch.
Colin Molloy
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Andy Mac
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sneaky
It won't be long before we have CCTV cameras mounted on all rocket launchers checking hooks per rig, fish handling techniques (5 second out of water rule for released fish), size limits, bag limits and catch per person etc etc.
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Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
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Dreamweaver
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CCTV
LOL - Don't give them ideas Andy - and yes CCTVs are becoming very popular down here (Barker and Albany).
Maybe DoF should mount them on the ocean floor - so they can do 'stocktakes'
Colin Molloy
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Adam Gallash
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lets just say
Without being able to say too much, lets just say that the, lets take extra people out in the boat to fill the quota happens a lot more often than you think... Can give millions of bad examples, but I cant. :(
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Daisy
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Gives the old salt water
Gives the old salt water fishing license argument a bit of weight hey, a bit easier to manage. It's a shme when you know first hand that this craps going on but can't do a thing about it.
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mako magic
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agree there daisy as long as
agree there daisy as long as the money is put to good use, maybe wages for new fisheries officers
Daisy
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That's the one Mako. ALL
That's the one Mako. ALL funds to be used to secure and improve recreational fishing in WA. Officers wages would be a good start.
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Happiness is fishy fingers with a stiff rod in my hand
The view expressed in this post is that of a self opinionated bullshitter and does not reflect that of this website, it's owners, mediators, other members or anyone else for that matter :-P
Dreamweaver
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That's interesting Adam
Unfortunately, that doesn't suprise me. It's a tough one, where do you draw the line. If a couple of guys go out fishing and one bags out and the other doesn't - is it wrong to 'split the catch'? Just asking. So where DO you draw the line - no more than 2 on board, 3, 4.....? Or do FOs make an 'in situ' judgement? Perhaps that why boat limits might be better? Again, just asking.
Colin Molloy
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Andy Mac
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Splitting a catch
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
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Dreamweaver
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Agreed totally Andy
Yup, that's the way I approach it. Last time I went out, I bagged out on BA. Though the wife only caught one (but the biggest), the rest of mine went back in. I certainly agree to that it's the skipper who must take responsibility for this and deckies need to respect that too.
Colin Molloy
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Daisy
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The rule on my boat is one
The rule on my boat is one persons bag limit allowed on board (altho I ususally start releasing before then) but I only carry up to three people, Lets face it it's not blokes like us we have to worry about.
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Happiness is fishy fingers with a stiff rod in my hand
The view expressed in this post is that of a self opinionated bullshitter and does not reflect that of this website, it's owners, mediators, other members or anyone else for that matter :-P
Dreamweaver
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Spot On Daisy
Daisy wrote:
Lets face it it's not blokes like us we have to worry about
Spot on Daisy, it's those that can't be bothered to know the right thing, let alone practice it.
This could be another reason why Saltwater Rec Licences would be a good thing. I know this won't be popular, but you would have to know the '(fishing) rules of the water' like 'the rules of the road'. I'm looking forward to the simple handbook coming out LOL.
Colin Molloy
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Blackbetty-50
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No easy answers
It's going to be a dark day when we can't share the boat catch with all on board.I agree with Co2 that a boat limit would be the best and the Fisheries officer would not have to make the judgement as who caught the fish. The rules must be Spelt out and written in Black and White so us layman can understand and there is no chance of misinterpretation of the rules by the fisheries officer at the ramp.
Dreamweaver
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Update on this
Still haven't received a reply from DoF, maybe it's in the 'too hard basket' LOL. Seriously, they are normally very prompt with a reply - so I've sent a follow up to the acknowledgement I received.
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
Soon to be de "dreamweaver" ed!
Dreamweaver
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I have a response ffrom DoF
You recall I started this thread advising that I'd emailed the Department of Fisheries (D0F) on the matter concerning day trips, multiple anglers and the need to label fish where such fish, being caught by more than one angler, are placed in a single, 'angler unsubdivided container' and considerations on how such fish constitute the skippers catch and therefore place the skipper in a position where species/cat/bag limits are exceeded.
Here is the response I received from DoF: (I've chosen to edit out the gentleman's name and contact details)
Hi Colin,
Thank you for your recreational fishing email enquiry of 16 June regarding the labelling of fish on a day trip.
The issues you have raised are covered under Regulation 16 (Possession limits) and Regulation 22 (Labelling of fish) of the Fish Resources Management Regulations 1995. The link on the Departments home page at http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/ will take you to the State Law Publisher website where you can view this legislation.
Regulations 16 and 22 both apply to the situation you have described.
Regulation 22 does not require labelling of the fish caught provided that the fish were taken on a "day trip", which is described in 16E. You have indicated that your enquiry regards a "day trip", and therefore there is no requirement to label the fish taken on that trip.
For the purposes of Regulation 16E(3), 16E(5) deems that the master is in possession of any fish on a boat that are not in the possession of any other person. In other words if no one claims to have possession of some fish on a boat the master is taken to be in possession of those fish, and if the master already has his daily limit would then be in breach of section 51, by virtue of the possession limit stipulated in 16E(3).
Regards
*****
***** ********************
Senior Management Officer
South West Bioregion
Department of Fisheries
Colin Molloy
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