LIP GRIPS - Weight For It - Interesting Article
Just received my Recfishwest 'Casting Around The Internet' email this morning. They're always interesting articles, not only from within WA, but outside (National/International) as well. These 'external' articles are important because they can have a 'flow-on' effect to us WA fisher folk.
One caught my eye, on 'Fish Lip Grips' it reads:
Effect of “fish lip grips” on bones and tendons to be researched
A $17,000 study into the effects of lifting fish from water using fish mouth grips will use high tech scanning equipment and new examination techniques. Research is aimed at determining what effect the grips have on the fish’s bones and tendons when fish are lifted with these types of grips. Best practice is to always support the weight of large fish, avoid grips with inbuilt scales and avoid holding a fish up by the grip
Here's the link to the orginal NT site:
http://www.nt.gov.au/dpifm/Fisheries/news_media_archive_article.cfm?newsid=379&ws=1
Given the emphasis on fish care and release changes, I haven't yet seen anyone come up with a 'cradle' where the fish is supported in a wet surface cradle with supports attached and weight grips or other scales terminating in a 'hook' can be used, but the fish is supported. I appreciate that different species are seen to be more/less prone to damage from 'lip support' and that it's not an issue if you intend to keep the fish. But with more fish being released, due to fishing style, undesirability, bag and size limits etc, maybe we need to look at a cradle system. If they don't exist, it would be a simple matter to make one up I'm sure.
Thoughts/input people?
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Bill
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The closest thing to a
The closest thing to a cradle system in my boat is the esky.
ROCKPOM
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with you on that one Bill I
with you on that one Bill I tend to cradle them in the freezer in snap lock bags!!!
Dreamweaver
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LOL Bill...not...
Not quite what I had in mind....
Colin Molloy
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Andy Mac
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Tape measure and a good guess
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hlokk
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A wet sling would definately
A wet sling would definately be great for those larger species you'd like to release like sambos, or just any big ones over what you need. I would imagine it could support the internal organs a lot better.
A lot of digital scales have a tare function, so you could rig up something to do the job. Then use a brag mat type thing, or any cloth or a bucket, or tare your environet (I think one net actually has scales.
I dont think the grips themselves cause any damage, its just more how you use them (i.e. dont lift them vertically only). I.e. wouldnt cause any more damage holding them from the lip using your hands. More of a convenient hold point.
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Dreamweaver
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Desire and Tendency
Fair point Andy. I guess where I'm coming from is that there is (still) a broader desire to find out what all fish weigh, including those released and a (understandable) tendency for folks to ask the inevitable question - 'what did it weigh?'.
Colin Molloy
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Dreamweaver
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Yes hlokk
Makes a lot of sense to (carefully) use the grips as just grips (providing you provide additional support), but not the weight aspect (vertical jaw lift) - hence the refernce in the original promulgation.
Colin Molloy
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Dreamweaver
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Good point
Yeas Adam less risk of varience as you say.
Colin Molloy
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Ryan Thipthorp (not verified)
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 01/01/70
damage
Lifting fish with a lip grip or lifting fish by the tail will do damage. The fish should always be supported by your hands and that'll equalize the weight. Weigh fish if they're for the ice box as mentioned and guesstermate if your releasing such a fish!
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Dreamweaver
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Yup, cheers Ryan
Yup, tend to agree, but you still see it done often.
Colin Molloy
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Ryan Thipthorp (not verified)
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educating/slow
One thing i've found Colin with filming FWA and writing articles is that it's a very slow process to educate the GP. Then, new members come to the angling sport and there lies the new task again!
* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *
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Dreamweaver
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Ongoing
Yup, sure Ryan, as you pointed out, people are constantly entering the wonderful sport of fishing. This, combined with changing ideas, technologies, methodologies and perspectives, requires constant vilgilence and education.
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brenz
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it took 17,000 dollars to
it took 17,000 dollars to come to that conclusion???? u have to worry dont ya!
brenz
TerryF
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The full story from that
The full story from that link.....
[ 30/05/2008 ]
Fisheries Minister Chris Natt today said a $17,000 Northern Territory Government research project conducted at the Darwin Aquaculture Centre is set to appear on national television.“Fishing is the lure of the Territory and part of the great Territory lifestyle,” Mr Natt said
“We want to make fishing in the Territory even better and that is why the research done by my Department is of great importance to our diverse fisheries and recreational anglers.
“I am very pleased that this research will be featured on Escape with ET and seen all across Australia.
“The Escape with ET crew will be filming a study into the effects of lifting fish from water using fish grips, which grip onto the fish’s mouth.
“Fisheries research began this study in 2006 and we are now taking it to the next step using many more fish, high tech scanning equipment and new examination techniques.
“The fish being studied are barramundi, as this research is aimed at determining what effect recreational anglers have on the fish’s bones and tendons when lifted with these types of grips.
“There has been very little work investigating whether lifting a fish by the jaw may harm it, with the only other fish investigated having small weak jaws compared to barramundi, which we know is a very tough fish.
“Barramundi are the number one target species for local and visiting fishermen and it’s important we know how best to handle them, as more than two thirds barramundi caught by recreational anglers are released.
“While catching a barramundi can be a thrill of a life time, it’s also very pleasing to see them swim off strongly, knowing they’ve been handled in a way that maximises their chances of survival.”
TerryF
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Daisy
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Oh well looks like I'll just
Oh well looks like I'll just hafta throw out those Bogagrips LOL
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Dreamweaver
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LOL Daisy
LOL Daisy, think you'll be ok with some additional support.
Colin Molloy
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flangies
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Whats the deal with holding
Whats the deal with holding them by the tail? dont worry i dont do it, never get fish big enough >.< but does it hurt them or what?
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Dreamweaver
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Next one
Sorry flangies, you have to weight for the answer to THAT question as that'll be in the next study
The current study is a head 
Colin Molloy
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Gully
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bogas
Yeah have never been a real fan of the boga grips, dont see how holding a fish from the mouth can be a good thing.
Products like this touted as being the new safe and friendly way to handle fish can lead to more damage as a lot of people I think would not think about the options mentioned above, like supporting the fishes body weight underneath, but just the fact that the product photos show fish being held by the lip so it must be ok.
Really the companies should be promoting the use of these products in conjuction with the cradle technique to get the message across to the general public.
I myself am like a lot of other people on here and dont weigh fish unless I am keeping them anyway and really anything I release is done in water for bigger fish.
Dreamweaver
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Good point gully
You raised a good point there - 'Commercial Responsibility'. Manufacturers (and (not all) 'downstream' retailers could take a bigger role in assisting here. This could be in the packaging text and supporting information for starters.
Colin Molloy
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blowy
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lifting mats
Dreamweaver
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Good contribution...but...Blowy?
Thanks for that contribition Blowy, not suprised they exist - was that a WA photo? But wouldn't be big enough for the larger criers I suspect.
Colin Molloy
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till
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I think they're still good
I think they're still good to hold fish while you dehook them in the water, boating.
Daisy
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As you say Colin no probs
As you say Colin no probs with them using a supporting hand beneath the fish, never bothered to weigh a fish for release with 'em tho. I much prefer the measure and release method.
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Dreamweaver
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All good points
Agreed Till, wich 'hooks' into your comment Daisy, as Ads said, the weight and release method.
Colin Molloy
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Faulkner Family
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idea
what would be wrong with rigging a hessian bag up with a measure sewn into it thus you get to see the length of fish and if you want you could lift the whole bag for weight or take a pic with fish supported by the whole length of the bag pic could be taken while bag is still in the water and show the aprox length
RUSS
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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Dreamweaver
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Good idea Russ!
Nice lateral thinking.....on the surface
Colin Molloy
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saltatrix
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Weighing Carp in the UK with
Weighing Carp in the UK with weigh slings has been common practice for some time.
So are specially made unhooking fish mat's to prevent slime removal.
Definately the way lip grips are used plays a big factor in survival.
Sure if you intend keeping the fish you can sling a fish vertical. Studies of jaw hanging Barra have shown the spine stretches potentially 20mm+.
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Dreamweaver
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International
Thanks salt. Good to get an international perspective, adopted practices in other countries and other species.
Colin Molloy
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saltatrix
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FISH GRIPSFish grips can
FISH GRIPS
Fish grips can be used to assist in
restraining a fish however care should be taken in how these are
used. Avoid grips with inbuilt scales and avoid the temptation of
holding the fish up by the grip to measure its weight. Fish grips are
especially useful for fish with sharp teeth.
http://www.info-fish.net/releasefish/files/24/fish%20friendly%20equipment.pdf
The fish grips with scales could be used to weigh a fish in a wetted fish sling probably made of a type of shade cloth works or smaller fish weighed in the Enviro net. When you consider, say, the amount of Bream targeted in the Swan river these days minimal contact with the fish to minimise protective slime removal must be a good thing. Daiwa make special rubber nets for Carp also. Europeans treat their carp like pets. Heavily fish small impoundments mean the same fish are captured over and over again.Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word