Absolutely fantastic to see the DVD finally out there Terry! Just downloaded and watched the first movie (I have a release weight and it was the FIRST bit of fishing gear I bought when I purchased my current boat ).

Congratulations to all on the video, and a special comendation to Gary (Lilley) for his comittment and conception!

This should go a LONG way into extended, not only the knowledge of release weights, but how, where and why to use them and folks actual use of them. 

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

Havent seen the video, but are we saying that the video is of QLD fish in 15m of water?

If so the relevance to releasing fish, particularly dhuies, in 30+m of water is questionable.

Steve

Yeah, fair point, the vast majority of our V5s, esp Dhuis are caught in well over 15m and actual footage showing the results would certainly be a benefit and hopefully dispell any doubts.

Mind you, as has been said before, there is no alternative to release weights.  

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

I dont know if any one has looked into the difference between the swim bladders of the V5 as they all differ greatly.

I would say that Dhu fish going by past experience have the weakest swim bladder of the lot.

As for watching or taking video "bring it on"

Mike Maccie asked me to do this but hasn't happened yet.

As for fish swimming away after being released I wouldn't be surprised if its just sheer adrenalin that they swim away at all only to hit the bottom like a stone once their remaning energy has been burnt up or Lactic acid build up.

I'd provide the boat free of costs for someone to do that.

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

Do you provide a 7mm suit for Albany as well?

As the warm up afterwards wouldnt look pretty!!LOL

It could be a good project to try and record.Wouldn't be hard getting Rockpom to follow some fish down with a camera and then we could all see what really happens.

i am sure it would only prove what i have been harping on about for the past 5 years anyway

As for fish swimming away after being released I wouldn't be surprised if its just sheer adrenalin that they swim away at all only to hit the bottom like a stone once their remaning energy has been burnt up or Lactic acid build up.

sorry vent coming on, you want to make an ill informed outlandish comment like that rockpom, ya would want to have the proof to back it, We have one of the highest recapture rates in the world from any fish, if you dont believe in the release weight good, your right, but (deleted) dont comment on it, unless ya know the research behind it, if ya still dont believe it, (deleted), lots of others that need to know that a fish has a chance at least, instead of being on the surface with its eyes picked out,

if ya need to know more. RFW have countless recapture stats on their site, from ALL depths,

wal

(edited by me Andy Mac 10/07/08 - no need to get that nasty Wal. Stick to the points and keep the venting under control please) - no puns intended

Some fish probably do die after an initial burst of energy but the stats show that this is, to date, the most successful way of releasing fish suffering baratrauma. Be our guest to come up with a better way of improving the mortality of released fish.

Personally, well done to RFW for the undertaking of this significant step in the education process 

TH 

Tony Harding

OFW #19

would love to have footage of rockpom going down chasing a jewie on a release weight, think we may be going to his funeral.

Mate ya not talking to any dipsh&t on this subject, we have been doing this for a while, everything you have decided to come up with has already been discuss. but got other suggestions to prove this right if ya want

As for fisheries using this agasinst us, ya already got that, its why it was invented 10 years ago to prove them wrong, why am i trying to explain this has got me farked

Wal

I welcome this DVD and what it will represent. Good to see the FRDC Grant being put to good use. I've got my DVDs and brochures being posted today (thanks Con)

I would also like to see more ongoing footage as mentioned. Depth say, 30-60m, release a dhu and see what happens ie recovery to barotrauma symptoms!

I was planning to do that this season just for our own curiosity, ohh and get a cray or two also

* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *

Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682

Yeah just got to wait for some good weather on a weekend with low swell for a while to clear it up and then some footage will follow.

I'd like to see footage of a fish being released to 40m that would be great.
Are the guys diving to 40m on air?
Cheers scott

Yeh the bottom time sucks (pardon the pun) but fun none the less. I've got a few mates that are using Nitrox but i've been diving to 45m on normal air!

* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *

Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682

yeh i know about bottom times that was why I asked, i know diving to 40 would only give you 5mins max so yeh.

We're getting around 15mins but we do it very safely so we dont push it!

* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *

Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682

40 m means sh&t, we should aim for 70+, its doable. just need to sit down and hear our thoughts on this,

I REALLY do hope that a lot of people respect your knowledge, comittment and passion.

OK, I can understand that you might (Do!) get frustrated about contra or ideas you've heard all before. But isn't it about 'winning' people over in a positive way? I would like to think so. Time will always 'reinvent' ideas.

Just because peoples passion is felt discordant to your own, isn't always a bad thing.

Sometimes a tap on the shoulder achieves a lot more than going for the jugular.

You can't hope for peoples unbridled attention by attacking them.  

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

With all the cocks swinging in the breeze here, i forgot WTF this thread was all about. Who said 'one up manship' was a dying art??

*shakes head*

Well said Deef . how deep can you guy's dive?

Without taking anything away from RFW's etc excellent work, is 40m the 'normal' max?  

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

If I was releasing a dvd on the use of release weights the last thing I would want is all this off topic sledging.

TH 

Tony Harding

OFW #19

Well Said Tony.

If we cant keep this on topic and civil we might end up with another locked thread.

This subject is too important to be derailed with 'one up manship' and 'game playing'.

Posted on behalf of the Moderator Team

Dreamweaver,

Diving to 40m is not that bad but bottom times are limited and can be done quite easily on normal air. At 42m you have around 7 min bottom time without decompression. If you do a decompression dive then of course your bottom time can be increased considerably.

Nitrox also will not always give you the ability to do deeper dives but will give you longer bottom times and shorter times between consequtive dives. In fact it can lesson your depth by quite a bit.

All I can say is wait for the footage people - it is coming! Is something we all want to see and is on the table I promise :)

And Wally - your comment on the lets go to 70m, what was the point to that. Was there any need?? Tell you what - I will watch as you do the dive...

RE; my comments before that got deleted, and rightly so.

I guess what I was trying to say in simple terms is:

You cant expect respect by abusing people into submission, if you want support Wally your gunna need to change your tactics or people will just go their own way as you seem to make it all to difficult.

I would love to sit out the back and have a beer whilst picking ya brains about it all in a real life atmosphere, rather than go the knuckle on a forum.

 I've seen a lot of divisions amongst fisho's on C&R of murray cod with best practices and see the same shite going on here, same shit different channel.

I'm sure everyones best interest here is in the survival of Demersals (mainly Dhuies) and you guys are all very lucky something is actually been done before stocks get to the critical levels of my beloved Murray Cod.

Work together and stuff the divisions when the common goal is the same, every bit of input should be treated with respect.

Over n Out.

Al. 

Proudly sponsered by Shimano & Humminbird.

Im far from an expert on boat fishing, releasing fish under the influence of Barotrauma, or even catching them for that matter. I just find this topic very interesting, due to some of the points outlined by people in there heated comments, and retorts.

Is there any other alternative to release weights for releasing undersize fish? Whilst the DVD supports the positive results of release weights, from what i see and read, the true survival rates aren't super high. Now i understand there may be no other way to release fish than using release weights, that will increase there chance of survival. We know, by the re-catch stats that the mortality rate is high, and there is an increase in the stats using release weights, but maybe its not the answer to a sustainable fishery, but a temporary solution to hold back firmer, stricter fishing rules, such as closures etc that result from a negative public opinion. So in a sense, the DVD is promoting the only suitable way currently available to support and sustain the way we fish for deep sea species like Dhuies. I would think, we all should be supporting it totally.

So theres no denying that R.W. do increase the survival rates, but a better solution must be found. What about things like a minimum hook size? Please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, but i am a keen fisho, trying to read between the lines.

----------------------------------------------------

"Guaranteed to catch fish mate, promise!"

Brett Ozanne

Yay, Wally threads are back again, great entertainmainment during those long nightshifts. I must admit it's a bit hard to fill those in newer on the scene (like myself)and share info and opinions when your getting farkin' told exactly how it farkin' has gotta be, I believe this is a forum so making comments that you believe may be true or have an element of truth is what it's all about, gettin told to shut ya farkin mouth cos ya don't know what ya farkin' talkin' about is the opposite of what it's all about.
Release weights - best idea so far
Release weights video - Good
Monitoring fish after deep water release - Fantastic idea

-----------------------------------------------------------
Happiness is fishy fingers with a stiff rod in my hand

Just to help get things back on track,I was just (again) reading through Collaborative tagging program and research for increasing the survival of released line-caught reef fish.

Under Interesting Facts, and I quote 'The deepest recapture of a dhufish to date is 90 metres released using a release weight (shotline)' - this would suggest to me that release weights DO work, and....

Under Dhufish recapture rates (to early 2006) the percentage recapture, via the 'simple', 'vented' and 'Shotline'(Release Weight) methods, the latter had the highest recapture at 10.1%. To me, this doesn't represent an almost 90% mortality rate, only that (simply) 10.1% were recaptured.

Also, Release Weights Back on the Menu, and in particular, Shooting video for the Release Weight DVD, certainly makes for good reading.

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

Colin



Thanks for posting those links.



There are other reasons for mortality of released fish, eg deep hooking, handling, etc - see below.



Info-fish website "Released fish survival - Gently does it" http://www.info-fish.net/releasefish/ has heaps of information.



The DVD and the RFW website have extra video segments from "Gently does it" (made for FRDC) by Andrew Ettingshausen which should interest people who fish for other species.

Yes, the Deep Hooking Fish was very interesting, particularly circles verses 'J's.

When viewing Samson Fish though, I noticed that there appeared to be a tendancy to 'spear' them in the water by just holding them inverted by the tail, rather than supporting them. As per Catching and caring for Samson Fish page 7, and I quote - '....and never lift the fish up by just the head or tail'.

As you say, so much more than 'just' release weights.

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

And Wally - your comment on the lets go to 70m, what was the point to that. Was there any need?? Tell you what - I will watch as you do the dive...

Ya Dont need to dive at all gully see link . edit click on the yellow eye release on the page ( pic) 

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/research/

Then all ya have to do is send down a camera to monitor the fish, because ya have the coords of where ya released it, of course you would want to send the cage down on a nice homely lump for him so he could hide for a while.

put ya self in my shoes. i never wanted any thunder, just the fish taken care of, a jewie back in the system is a jewie in the recruitment bank. instead of on the surface with its eyes picked out

What really is needed here is a more vigourous tagging study with bigger jewies in deeper water.Fisheries and the Aliance ( now) wants to remove the min size, all good out deep but what about heading north where most of these fish are nailed in shallower water, and then ya have the implications of this flowing on to other species across the whole state

Wal

that you divers are showing a bit of passion for what is a very admirable project. Personally i get the bends in the bath these days and you ALL deserve a pat on the back in my book.

 (1) Yeh Terry, good to see FRDC and AGRFCGP helping out ....very overdue! 

(2) Deefa quote {With all the cocks swinging in the breeze here, i forgot WTF this thread was all about. Who said 'one up manship' was a dying art?? 

*shakes head*}Deefa quote

hehehe...as we discussed Deefa ;) *rolled eyes* 

(3) Pete's got the HD camera for footage and i'm getting the new housing, well be doing our own footage and to kill my curiosity of many things

* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *

Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682

Personally i loved the Vid. Having just bought my first release weight and having now set it all up it was good to see how it was actually used. I speak to fisherman all day and honestly there area allot of different ideas on getting fish back into the water but the release weight is simply the best I've yet seen and good on those for there involvement.

As for the video side of things it would be good to see but i don't think it will show anything different than what we already now. Whether it be in 15 mtr's of water or 50 mtrs what i think the vid is showing is how easy they come of the release weight and for me i was happy with the 15 mtr shots.

 As for Wally and his passion it is sad that it comes out the way it does but as I've said a thousand times its just a shame how it gets put out there. I'd personally love to learn more from blokes like you Wal and Garry because I'm the type that loves to ask for help but unless you can change your approach you'll find no one will still listen.

Good on all those involved and thanks for you for thoughts all those years ago 

Joondalup Boat Shack
18 Winton Rd, Joondalup WA www.boatshack.com.au

____________________________
*****RECFISHWEST MEMBER

that what ever we can do to get these fish back safely even 1% let alone 10% more by using the release weight etc is better then doing nothing and letting them die ...

With all the people wanting to release dhufish in 40m and film it (document), we would get a very good picture and see quite quickly on how the survival/recovery to barotrauma symptoms would be!

Definatly agree that fish released in 15m of water versus 40 would be different!  

* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *

Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682

Its great to see, definately has to be more effective and better to the fish than venting.

I'm not going to enter the discussion from a research perspective, but good to see some progress in terms of informing the masses.